Titebond glue guide

[kmealy]

I'll have to say that I use Titebond Original 95% of the time. I don't do much outdoor or food-contact stuff. One point is the strength, a good glue joint will be stronger than the surrounding wood and the 3 big glues are +-10% of each other in strength. Open time and temperature range (AKA chalk temperature) can be a deciding factor. One thing I don't like about TBIII is that if you get it on your clothes and don't get it out right away, you have a permanent glue spot. I've got several pieces of clothing (including one I have on right now) with that affliction.

The other glue I use a lot is Quick & Thick -- is it great for miters and other short-grain applications. I use it on picture frames exclusively.

I really don't like polyurethane glues. Short shelf life, stain flesh, bubbles out making a mess, not reversible, weak gap filling, and oh yeah, does a number on clothes, too. When I got to a repair job and heard, "My husband tried to repair this with Gorilla Glue," I knew that would double or triple my efforts.

http://www.titebond.com/community/the-b ... e=hs_email

TItebond glue guide.pdf

Titebond-Wood-Glue-Comparison-Chart.pdf

[Cherryville Chuck]

I've used quite a variety of glues. I use polyurethane when it is the best glue for the job, mostly the 100% water resistance. I've used the TBs but they aren't my favorites and Stick refuses to use them at all. He had some furniture that he sold a client and the joints came apart. It turned out that the furniture (some type of table I think he told me) was sitting in front of a window in the sun. He did a test with some more boards glued with TB and left them in a vehicle in the sun and they fell apart. For all the things it's good at it apparently has no heat resistance. I personally think Weldbond is a superior glue and so does Stick. Weldbond also dries to a slightly flexible state which is the best for joints that will be stressed. Glues that dry rigid tend to shatter the bond at some point. I think that's why hide glue assembled furniture lasts so long.

For gluing to mdf and particle board and edge gluing to plywood I normally only use Titebond's Melamine glue. It also is a rubbery bond that stands stress and it doesn't tend to starve in joints like regular glues do. It will stick to melamine coatings and will also stick small pieces of hpl together (the water carrier has to be able to migrate out of the joint).

The other must have glue I keep around is Lee Valley's Fish Glue. It stays water soluble forever and there are a lot of jobs where that is desirable. It deserves a decently long post of it's own. Plus of course there is the cyanoacrylates for woodworking when you need a quick bond and epoxies for total waterproofness and gap filling. I have also used fiberglass resin to glue wood and it is pretty much up there with epoxy.

[DaninVan]

Re the Weldbond; great little website...
https://www.weldbond.com/
A bit cheeky.

[Cherryville Chuck]

Whoever wrote the copy has a good sense of humor. For some laughs read the FAQs. One of the things I like about Weldbond is the clear glue line. I've also been using a Franklin product called Evertite which also dries clear. This makes the glue line less noticeable than usual unless you're gluing a dark brown wood with a brown glue. Dark glues have a really visible glue line in light colored woods like ash, maple, and birch. Yellow aliphatic glues can be quite visible in some cases too. I've used Lee Valley's GF202 glue which is quite dark and when gluing birch the glue line is one of the first things to get your attention.

Also with the GF202 it is quite thick (the GF stands for gap filling). That was sometimes a real problem as it occasionally split a tight fitting joint as there wasn't enough room for that thick of a glue. That issue comes into play once in a while so you have to take precautions against hydraulic lock and sometimes that means using a thinner glue. One of the TBs has higher solids content too but I can't remember exactly which one. In a loose fitting joint it's a good quality but in a really tight fitting joint it might be a bad quality.

I know lots of people like to keep it simple and just have one glue on hand but that isn't always going to give the results you want.

[Stick486]

I just used WB to glue some Styrofoam pieces together to form up some panels...
the joints are stronger than the foam board...
sealed the crumbling outer edges... rock solid..
glued on a broke off junk...
glued up layers to get thickness..
WB worked really well...
WB fused to the Styrofoam excellently and it did not melt or corrode the Styrofoam...

[DaninVan]

I've been using the WB for the past couple of weeks, as opposed to my normal TBII. So far I like it, although I have to say the fast setup time is a bit unnerving...takes a bit of getting used to.
I was a bit taken aback by the instructions to 'lightly clamp if necessary'...wait...what? I don't need lebenty-leben barclamps?! *shock*
I don't know whether to take that literally or not(?).

[Stick486]

the fast setup time is a bit unnerving...

10~12 minuets isn't enough???
TB is only 5 at best...

[/quote]

'lightly clamp if necessary'...

true...

[/quote]

I don't know whether to take that literally or not

do so...

[Cherryville Chuck]

I read years ago that the primary cause of joint failure is over clamping. The excess pressure causes too much squeeze out and starves the joint for glue. The article went on to say that "excessive clamping force should never be a substitute for properly prepared boards". I personally still believe the strongest bond is achieved by putting glue on both surfaces and waiting until the glue just starting to skin over and then put the pieces together. That gives the glue a chance to soak into the grain as much as possible and the squeeze out then would be excess glue. I think putting on a diluted sizing coat of glue and then before it dries add full strength glue can make a stronger bond too, especially on end grain or material like particle board.

Franklin's melamine glue used to come with directions that said only very light clamping was needed and brad nailing was sufficient pressure.

[Stick486]

especially on end grain or material like particle board.

SOP for end grain...

[DaninVan]

the fast setup time is a bit unnerving...

10~12 minuets isn't enough???
TB is only 5 at best...

'lightly clamp if necessary'...

true...

[/quote]

I don't know whether to take that literally or not

do so...
[/quote]

On the 10 min. part; i wish! I'm finding WB is at least twice as fast at TBII at developing a grip that won't allow for adjustment. I'm not complaining, I'll just have to get used to working with that factor.

[Stick486]

at developing a grip that won't allow for adjustment

multiple choice...
slide...
don't pull...
adhesive to both sides...
size 1st...

[kmealy]

I read years ago that the primary cause of joint failure is over clamping. The excess pressure causes too much squeeze out and starves the joint for glue. The article went on to say that "excessive clamping force should never be a substitute for properly prepared boards". I personally still believe the strongest bond is achieved by putting glue on both surfaces and waiting until the glue just starting to skin over and then put the pieces together. That gives the glue a chance to soak into the grain as much as possible and the squeeze out then would be excess glue. I think putting on a diluted sizing coat of glue and then before it dries add full strength glue can make a stronger bond too, especially on end grain or material like particle board.

Franklin's melamine glue used to come with directions that said only very light clamping was needed and brad nailing was sufficient pressure.

I attended a day-long seminar with Bob Behnke, head of Titebond's tech team. He said they ran some tests with trying to overtighten clamps to determine if that was a problem. He said they were unable to hand-tighten clamps to the point where it weakened the joints. In fact, in red oak, more pressure was actually stronger.

He also did a test with No-run/No-Drip (now known as Quick&Thick). He glued end-grain of 1x2 poplar (I had prepared the sample, so no funny business). In 15 minutes he could not break it. Eventually he put it on some blocks on the floor and jumped on it to get it to break.

[Herb Stoops]

That is good to know, Keith.
HErb

[sunnybob]

I have used titebond 3 with very good results. it allows movement before final set up. I am surprised it came apart under heat because my climate can be slightly hotter than florida. Top temp this summer was 113F.

But my problem is supply. There is only one shop here that imports titebond, and they keep it till its all sold before ordering more.
The last bottle I bought was bigger than I wanted because they were running out. But after a while I found out about date codes and my bottle was NINE YEARS out of date.
It still worked for another year but then went lumpy so I had to throw the last away.

If you dont know, all titebond glue bottles have year of manufacture stamped on the necks. The first 2 digits of the code are the year. TB3 has a 2 year recommended shelf life. Possibly the failed glue was way out of date.

[Herb Stoops]

I didn't know that, thanks for posting it.

[Cherryville Chuck]

So over clamping is another urban myth exposed. When I first started buying Franklin's Melamine glue it said very light clamping only on the bottles but I don't think that's on there anymore. Now I'm wondering why.

[LabRat]

I am surprised it came apart under heat because my climate can be slightly hotter than florida.

it plasticizes w/ heat and lets go...
use weldbond instead...

[Herb Stoops]

I am surprised it came apart under heat because my climate can be slightly hotter than florida.

it plasticizes w/ heat and lets go...
use weldbond instead...

I use a roller a lot to smooth out the wet Titebond on the joint. Sometimes I forget to clean the roller after use. So When I go to use it is hardened glue on it. I take it into the sink and run hot water on it for a minute and can peel the glue off the neoprene roller.
HErb

[LabRat]

you can wash out/restore dried up glue brushes that way too...

yup...