A Routering Question

[DaninVan]

Does anyone use that clear cellulose packing tape to layout on your wood in order to avoid drawing on the wood itself, and then router through the tape? Does it gum up the bit(s) or have any other nasty side affects?
I know that scrollers use it to hold 3D scroll items together and that it supposedly 'lubricates' the cutting action, but I've never tried it.

[Herb Stoops]

I have used it in Scrollsawing, but not routering.
Herb

[DaninVan]

OK...you try it and let me know...

[Stick486]

Does anyone use that clear cellulose packing tape to layout on your wood in order to avoid drawing on the wood itself, -
no... never again... - thin low modulus(sp?) painter's tape instead... final clean w/ turps... but I like plan ''B'' the best...
Does it gum up the bit(s) - yes...
or have any other nasty side affects? - the plastic and the glue gets heat set into the wood's grain... shows up in the finish..

plan''B''...

w/ the correct lead...

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PENTEL PENCILS.jpg

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clean up in block, stick and cap form......

match the eraser to the lead and material you drew on...

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ERASER.jpg

E1.jpg

E2.jpg

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[Stick486]

just so we are on the same page...

Cellulose tape is a clear or translucent cellulose acetate film coated with a rubber/resin based solvent or acrylic based adhesive...

[DaninVan]

Excellent info, Stick; thank you! I'll just use a pencil as always. It's just so hard to see on dark wood.
Maybe try a white or yellow pencil crayon...
https://store.opusartsupplies.com/sagro ... oduct=7302
You missed one...
https://store.opusartsupplies.com/sagro ... oduct=3578

[Biagio]

I have the same visibility/contrast problem, even worse with the 0,4 to 0,5 mm leads for Incra rules. I had the problem beat when I found a batch of welder's pencils - look like the opusart pencils, but with a real lead lead, instead of polymer-graphite whatever. The lead stood out well against dark wood. as usual, when I find a solution it vanishes - now nobody sells them, or even remembers having sold them.

[DaninVan]

Biagio; are any of these helpful?
https://www.kmstools.com/la-co-markal-s ... encil.html
https://www.kmstools.com/la-co-markal-r ... encil.html
https://www.kmstools.com/la-co-markal-s ... -pack.html
I think what's happened is that the small paint markers have taken over the market. Waterproof, write over rust, and convenient.
If I can be of assistance in getting any of those for you, let me know.

[DaninVan]

From the mfg...
https://markal.com/products/silver-stre ... ker-silver
Sold on Amazon.

[Cherryville Chuck]

There's been the odd time I drew something with a cad program and then printed it and glued the paper to my piece. When I do that I use Lee Valley's Fish Glue. It's water soluble. When done I spritz the paper and get it damp, then wait a minute before I peel it off. The residue wipes off with a damp rag. Because the glue is water soluble it doesn't interfere with stain or finish. At least not that I have ever noticed. I can't remember if I routed to a pattern like that, maybe just sawed to it.

I also use the fish glue to repair grain splits and glue in plugs and button caps. Same reason, any residue wipes up and doesn't create a blotch in the finish. I also use fish glue to make sandpaper files. I cut left over laminate about 1 1/2 to 2" wide and 3-4" long and glue sandpaper to the backside. The hard backing lets you use it like a rasp so that you can smooth things like the edge of the fillet above an ogee without rounding it over. They are also good for easing edges without risking getting a sliver in a finger like happens when you use sandpaper.

[Stick486]

It's just so hard to see on dark wood.

those leads I linked you to come in a variety of colors...
no issue on clean up....

[Stick486]

Maybe try a white or yellow pencil crayon...

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Colored Mechanical Pencil Leads

[Stick486]

now nobody sells them, or even remembers having sold them.

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Are these them???

[Stick486]

Plan "C"...

[DaninVan]

Plan "C"...

Ooooo! I like those!! I haven't noticed them at the stationers, but you bet I'm going to look for them now.

[smitty10101]

@Stick486
https://www.amazon.com/Markal-96101-Sil ... G_PEN&th=1

roughly equivalent?????

[Stick486]

roughly equivalent?????

no... different animals...

[Biagio]

Gents, appreciate the suggestions, sorry for the tardy reply, been short-handed since my secretary tested positive - quarantine, all consultations online, etc. Quarantine ends tomorrow.

Dan, those markall pencils are the very thing - I have a 1" stub with the made in USA inscription. Have not seen the retractable types like you and Stick showed.
I did not know such things existed, until I saw them by chance at a big box store. The chain had been taken over by Walmart, who promised to source all sorts of wonderful stuff from around the world, and this looked like them making good on the promise. Unfortunately, they also introduced some novel ideas, like getting rid of all the staff who had been there for decades, and having outsourced "merchandisers" who know from nothing - generally underpaid refugees from a zitfest. Strangely, it seems to be a thing of retailers here, that if something sells very well, i.e. sells out, they never get it again, then deny ever having stocked it. Even men's shirts in popular styles.

Those pencils worked as claimed BTW - I got them when I was welding up some roof trusses, and the lines do illuminate while welding, and do not burn off. They are fragile, compared to carpenter's pencils, but can be sharpened to a fine enough point to use with Incra rules, and the silver lead really does stand out against dark wood.
I have been pointed towards a specialty welding supplies place, and will look for them there. Amazon's shipping costs to South Africa are a bit higher than the item selling price!
I have not encountered the coloured felt-tip pens in a light enough ink and a thin enough point to use with Incra rules. I have made do with Fine-point correction-fluid pens - the line stands out brilliantly, but the rule then needs de-gunking. Used on their own, the line width is completely unpredictable.

[Biagio]

Well, what do you know? Just went on line and they are available again, at a different Walmart subsidiary. Is it the habit of that company to keep the customers off-balance?

[Biagio]

Hell! They even have retractable model, for about US$ 10. Must be old stock - our money is worth squat.

[sunnybob]

I use a lot of dark woods like walnut, rosewood and bubinga which hide ALL pencil lines. So I use ordinary white masking tape if I'm drawing freehand. The remains will peel of easily after use.
If I'm making a bandsaw box I draw or print it out on ordinary white paper, and then use artists spray adhesive to fix the paper to the wood.
Any remaining that wont peel off comes away with the sanding.

[DaninVan]

Like this, Bob?
https://store.opusartsupplies.com/sagro ... duct=11101

[DaninVan]

Coloured leads available here (Canada)...
https://www.123ink.ca/p-347756-n-285-pl ... #sku348662
https://www.jetpens.com/Pilot-Color-Eno ... ue/pd/1169

[Stick486]

Well, what do you know? Just went on line and they are available again,

Look to Art &Drafting Supply houses for Lead Holders and Colored Refills...
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Now this is cool,
and the refills...
More refills...
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these colors erase the same as a #2 pencil...

[sunnybob]

Like this, Bob?
https://store.opusartsupplies.com/sagro ... duct=11101

Yup, to be honest any art supplier will sell one make or another. I just spray and pray (lol).
I even paste onto rough sawn timber if I'm cutting a bandsaw box.

[DaninVan]

re coloured .7mm leads...
https://www.jetpens.com/blog/The-Best-C ... ads/pt/833
Helpful comparison of brands and performance

[Stick486]

the e
Eno by Pilot are top quality, same for Pentel...... it's all about availability now...
you might want to consider .9mm refills...
after all was said and done I settled on the .9's... just worked better overall...
.9 gives you a good precise mark/line w/o over doing...
.7 does the same only daintier... aka less visible..
FWIW... the Pentels erase cleaner... same as a #2 pencil...

[DaninVan]

A different routering question;
So I whipped off another end grain cutting board and after routering the juice channel, I ended up with some burn marks in the 4 corners.
3/4" round profile x maybe 3/8" depth.
I've been sanding manually trying to completely remove them and I'm not enjoying the experience.
It's too late to acquire some new gadget for this one , but any suggestions for if/when it happens again.
And yes, I did turn the speed down. I think it was set at 4 or 5 on my Bosch 1617.
The smart money would have dropped the bit another 64th" and done a clean up climb cut, maybe even at a slower speed?
Too late now...

[Herb Stoops]

I always thought that slow=burn.
Lowering bit seems like the way to go, as minimal as possible and make more than one cut. I did that one time and while going the wrong direction the router climbed the wrong way and climbed off the edge. That one ended up having a juice "Pocket" routed on that corner.
Herb

[Stick486]

always thought that slow = burn

I'm w/ you Herb...
make the grove...
then lower the bit a faint skosh, max out the speed and do a fast pass for the clean up...

[DaninVan]

Live and learn; I thought high speed caused the burns.

[Stick486]

I thought high speed caused the burns.

too fast of a feed rate will also...
same for dull bits and biting off more than you can chew...

[Herb Stoops]

Sometimes it happens on the router table while routing against the fence and stop to get another hand hold to push the material through. Burns are the scourge of routing, and as you experienced, Dan. Sometimes scrapers can remove them,they are very stubborn, as you know.
Herb

[sunnybob]

Too slow equals overheating and therefore burning.
Too much cut equals overheating and therefore burning.
Fast and shallow doesnt give the wood enough time to overheat.
Youve heard the old saying, "first cut is the deepest", well the last cut should be the shallowest.

[Stick486]

Youve heard the old saying, "first cut is the deepest", well the last cut should be the shallowest.

excellent!!!

[Stick486]

FWIW...
the bit should be producing shavings, not sawdust...
the shavings carry away the cutting operation's heat...

[DaninVan]

"same for dull bits and biting off more than you can chew.."
You sayin' I shouldn't have gotten married???

[Bushwhacker]

I have found that any time I run the cut backwards like to clean out a corner or stop during the cut it will heat the wood and leave a burn, even while using the guard, it will burn or gouge out a pocket. It is always a B***h trying to sand that corner out. I used my Dremel on one large burn and it seemed to work fairly well.
Sandra says that I am my own worst critic and that no one else will notice.
I think we are all that way.

Bushwhacker

[DaninVan]

Now we're getting somewhere! What did you use on the end of the Dremel?
3M has same interesting accessories...
https://www.chippingaway.com/cat/woodca ... tle-discs/
Anyone tried these?

[Herb Stoops]

Those are new to me, I have used the flap wheels and like them, I know I would like these.
Herb