Workers Of Wood

Scrap?

If its a side to side tapered finger joint, the answer in is the name.
if its a box joint, as in square projections fitting into square spaces, they are pegs or (if you want to be really olde worlde English) crenellations.

I have never referred to a box joint that way except to say leave the ends proud to sand flush. I have never referred to them as fingers.
I have when I make make hinges I cut them as a box joint, not as a finger joint, and don't refer to them as fingers either.
Call them what you like, all I know is if I order a finger joint cutter I will not be getting a box joint cutter. And if I am talking to someone about finger joints, I am not talking about box joints.
HErb

Chuck, you are saying that we call it the way we do is right because "we say so". But you say that you call it that because someone in the early 1900 called it that before finger joints were even invented. so you are right. I am saying it doesn't make any difference as long as who ever you are talking to understands what you are talking about. But if you are talking to me about cutting finger joints and are really cutting box joints then I am confused in my own mind.
HErb

pins that go into the sockets...

Finger Joint
Box Joint
(be sure to scroll to the bottom of the page}...

No mistake about it, these joints are separate entities...

Cherryville Chuck wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:54 pm Bazinga! One question I asked everyone has avoided answering. What do you call the projections at the end of the board when you cut them. You know, the ones that mesh with the ones on the end of the other board. Herb, Stick, Dan, and Bob, care to reply on that?

I call them fingers but thats me LOL

So do I. If you cut dovetails to make a dovetail joint, miters to make a miter joint, laps to make a lap joint then when you cut fingers you must be making a finger joint, right?

Stick486 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:42 pm Finger Joint
Box Joint
(be sure to scroll to the bottom of the page}...

No mistake about it, these joints are separate entities...

And yet I provided a historical reference to the contrary. You provided a link that showed Forrest sells a blade set for making finger joints. The Duck Duck Go web search when you type in "woodworking finger joints images" show 85% the joint I'm talking about. Someone is definitely mistaken all right. I've yet to see a reference to box joints in any historical woodworking literature. All the contributors at FWW call it a finger joint first before they say also called a box joint. If you hope to have a chance at winning this argument you are going to have do a whole boatload better than you have so far.

Cherryville Chuck wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:12 pm So do I. If you cut dovetails to make a dovetail joint, miters to make a miter joint, laps to make a lap joint then when you cut fingers you must be making a finger joint, right?

so you are going to rewrite the nomenclatures for other joinery now???...
YIKES....
a DT joint has pins and sockets...
lap joints...
.

Well...this has been fun.

Me too,
I'm Outta here...........Like Bobby Bare sang,Your the Winner......
Herb

Stick486 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:19 pm

Cherryville Chuck wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:12 pm So do I. If you cut dovetails to make a dovetail joint, miters to make a miter joint, laps to make a lap joint then when you cut fingers you must be making a finger joint, right?

so you are going to rewrite the nomenclatures for other joinery now???...
YIKES....
a DT joint has pins and sockets...
lap joints...
.

half_lap_joint_terminology.jpg

Now why would you want to go and make something way more complicated than it needs to be?

Cherryville Chuck wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:14 am Now why would you want to go and make something way more complicated than it needs to be?

just keeping up w/ the times...
and following your lead....

Cherryville Chuck wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:14 am

Stick486 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:19 pm

Cherryville Chuck wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:12 pm So do I. If you cut dovetails to make a dovetail joint, miters to make a miter joint, laps to make a lap joint then when you cut fingers you must be making a finger joint, right?

so you are going to rewrite the nomenclatures for other joinery now???...
YIKES....
a DT joint has pins and sockets...
lap joints...
.

half_lap_joint_terminology.jpg

Now why would you want to go and make something way more complicated than it needs to be?

Only if you cut it at the joint.
HErb

So are you guys ready to capitulate now and start calling that joint by its proper name, i.e. finger joint? I think I've provided ample evidence for you.

I bought a fingerjoint bit at Infinity Many years ago on sale, never used it. I also bought a boxjoint cutter at freud and use it on the TS quite often. I tried cutting box joints on the router table years ago, but always ended up blowing out at least one joint of the bunch and sometimes more, causing me to have to make additional parts. And since then I have had my old carbide dado resharpened with flat top cutters, and can cut dado's/ box joints up to 1" wide, I use that mostly. I would rather cut box joints on the table saw any day. I have never found the urge to end join boards so Don't really need a fingerjoint bit. If I do I would use a spline.
So to answer your question, Chuck I will call them Boxjoints and Fingerjoints for each different one appropriately,so when I speak everyone knows what I am talking about. If I used them interchangeably, I would have to go into a long dissertation about why I called a box joint a fingerjoint and visa versa.
HErb

Herb I'm pretty sure that it would generally be unnecessary to specify which case you are talking about. Just as so many words in our language have different meanings that become apparent which one you are implying because of the context you use it in the same would apply to this situation. Very few people would mistake your intent. Since the use of tapered fingers only applies to splicing we would need to be discussing adding pieces end on end to each other which would make it obvious that we are talking about tapered fingers. If we are talking about joining the corners of two pieces together then it becomes obvious that we are talking about straight fingers.

I also have a bit for making tapered fingers and I've thought I might use it if I get around to making chairs. Profiling the edges of the seat boards would make for a super strong joint between them. Splining the seat boards would be pretty strong but tapered fingers would be even better. That would increase the amount of glue surface by 3 or 4 times.

I guarantee that we have members in our wood working club that if I told them I made a box with box joints,that they would know what I was talking about and the same goes for joining boards together with finger joints. They would totally agree with you that joining the edges of a chair seat with a finger joint as being stronger, but if you said you are joining the seat for a chair with a box joint they would be scratching their heads. These terms are not interchangeable, they mean two absolutely different things.I don't buy that just because the worlds most supreme woodworker called them that,makes it so. But I don't hold it against anyone calling things by different names it just means they have to explain to me which they are talking about.
Herb

Herb Stoops wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:13 pm just because the worlds most supreme....................

some many throughout history were call heretics because they challenged or corrected the the ''learned'' all knowings and it was later proven that the ''learned'' weren't so all knowing...
I'm w/ HErb...

Herb Stoops wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:13 pm But I don't hold it against anyone calling things by different names it just means they have to explain to me which they are talking about.
Herb

Exactly the point I made a long ways back. There are more than enough people who refer to that joint as a finger joint, lots of them being well pedigreed, that the name is perfectly acceptable to use in that way. I never should have been corrected in referring to it as I did and no one in the future should ever be either unless you want to go through this same argument over and over and over again forever. There are also lots of people who refer to it as a box joint and I don't intend to correct them if that is their preferred terminology. It's okay to point out that it can go by either name but neither one is wrong.

Cherryville Chuck wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:17 pm It's okay to point out that it can go by either name

no it's not...

It is OK to point out that they are not the same to correct a person saying they are.
Would you say it is OK to call a moose a buffalo?
This is our job to correctly inform beginners the right terms.
Herb

@Herb Stoops
why do I get the feeling we're being told to eat dung because all those flies can't be wrong????

Maybe we should ask Norm...Norm Crosby, that is...

Stick486 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:33 pm no it's not...

Yes it is. They'll come across it on the internet anyway. It's best they know that it can be either one. Remember that link to the finger joint images search? 85% of the images that the search called finger joints were what you're calling a box joint. Only 15% showed a tapered finger/ splice joint. When I show you evidence that I'm right and you show me evidence that says I'm right, and Herb shows me evidence that says I'm right then that strongly indicates that I'm right doesn't it?

Herb Stoops wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:22 pm It is OK to point out that they are not the same to correct a person saying they are.
Would you say it is OK to call a moose a buffalo?
This is our job to correctly inform beginners the right terms.
Herb

Those are the right terms. They are bound to come across the term I used if they read and do woodworking research. It's best they know that it can be either description otherwise not knowing could be just as confusing. Like I just pointed out to Stick a search for finger joint images comes up 85% what I say, not what you are saying. I'll point you back to the link you included describing the splice type joint and they made a point to say that that type joint uses tapered fingers which implies that there are also straight fingers and straight fingers aren't used to splice boards together. They would have made the effort to distinguish the one for splicing unless designating the difference made a difference. If you two want to keep this up I'm good for a few hundred more posts at least if not thousands.

Unless you can somehow convince all the people at places like Fine Woodworking, Forrest Saw Blades, all the people who have written articles and made videos calling it a finger joint to suddenly stop and call it only a box joint, plus erase all the references to it on the internet and in books then there is absolutely no way you can win this argument. If you two want to keep smacking yourselves in the forehead with a 2 by 4 then carry on.

Looks like you have to convince the people at Leigh jigs too. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Model-F3-Finge ... Sw2BRc4o0b

Ironically Incra calls their jig Ibox but it makes finger joints. https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/to ... em=86N6020 Since Lee Valley advertises it as such maybe you have to convince them too.

Better head over to Lumberjocks too. https://www.lumberjocks.com/reviews/8986

I'm not sure who this is but you need to get ahold of them asap and tell them they're wrong! https://www.woodworkingarchive.biz/fing ... oints.html

Looks like Popular Woodworking too. https://www.popularwoodworking.com/arti ... joint_jig/

Well my shop is waiting for me to get at some projects. You two let me know when you've made it through that bunch and I'll strat looking for more. Like I said, I'm good for at least 100s more posts on this.

You can do it your way, I will do it my way,because it is the right way. When I write about it I will call it appropriately the right way, and you can sort it out. It is not my job to straighten out these people/places that are calling it wrong, they are just catering to people like you who don't understand the right way and they are only interested in selling something, not correcting your errors. And the only reason they print/say both is because of people like you that refuse to understand the correct terms.
Herb

Herb Stoops wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:06 pm You can do it your way, I will do it my way,because it is the right way. When I write about it I will call it appropriately the right way, and you can sort it out. It is not my job to straighten out these people/places that are calling it wrong, they are just catering to people like you who don't understand the right way and they are only interested in selling something, not correcting your errors. And the only reason they print/say both is because of people like you that refuse to understand the correct terms.
Herb

BRAVO!!!!

OK; enough! Everybody has offered their opinion but now it's getting personal. This isn't fun anymore...sort of reminiscent of a former hangout which I seem to remember folks leaving at least in part due to personality clashes.

Here is another European trained master of masters calling it a finger joint. He doesn't bother to say that it it is also called a box joint so he probably never heard it called that when he was apprenticing. He says it so naturally I'm sure it's how he learned it from his grandfather he he said was the person who taught him. I'm assuming that his grandfather was also a master.

Tell me again Herb who has it right and who has it wrong? If you want to call it a box joint Herb feel free to do so. Enough people do that it isn't considered wrong but from what I've found I think it most likely that finger joint came first so it is also correct. If you don't want to confuse someone you're teaching then it would be a good idea to let them know that some people are inclined to refer to the joint that way. Just like Sunnybob refers to a rabbet as a rebate. He isn't wrong for using that term. Like Dan said enough is enough. But if I see either one of you correct someone for using the term finger joint we'll start this all over again. You have my word on that.

9:10 Frank says that this is a very acceptable box joint.

boogalee wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:00 pm 9:10 Frank says that this is a very acceptable box joint.

Yes. Exactly. Both terms are acceptable.