Workers Of Wood

Ok, I'm finally going to attempt to butcher some hand-cut dovetails as practice.

So my question is what would be the "best" compromise in a dovetail saw without taking a second mortgage out.
And what would the "best" compromise be on TPI?

Pull stroke versus push stroke.

I tried some last night just for giggles on a piece of pine with my FIL Sears dovetail saw. Was acceptable for the first attempt. But the saw was a PITA.
It was a push stroke with 12 tpi. Switched to a Japanese pull stroke and was a little better with it.

Again the pine was for practice. Will be trying Poplar and then some real hardwoods later in the week.

I’ve tried them once and didn’t do that well but I find a pull saw easier to control and LV sells one of their own at a fair price. It has very fine teeth and a good stiff spine and cuts well. Like you I need a lot more practise.

Cherryville Chuck wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:03 am I’ve tried them once and didn’t do that well but I find a pull saw easier to control and LV sells one of their own at a fair price. It has very fine teeth and a good stiff spine and cuts well. Like you I need a lot more practise.

I had the pleasure of trying out one of these bad boys at the L-N showroom a few years back.... VERY nice dovetail saws, but kinda spendy.

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/nodes/4145/dovetail-saws

Agreed...pull saw with stiff back is the way to go.

The best bang for the buck in Western style (push, pistol grip) dovetail saws is the Veritas dovetail saw. It has a relaxed 14 degree rake, which makes fir smooth sawing and easy starting. There are two saws available, a 14 ppi for board thickness of 1/2” and greater, and a 20 ppi for boards of 1/2” and less. All other dovetail saws generally have between 3-8 degrees if rake, which is preferred by some like myself, as this makes them more aggressive, but I am a pretty experienced sawyer. The LN (one of which I use and like) falls into this category.

I would recommend a push over the pull (Japanese) style saw for the newbie because it will withstand a lot more abuse (typically from the way one mishandles the saw). Japanese saws leave the best finish of all thinner plates, higher tooth count, and minimal set), but the production saws have impulse hardened teeth, which makes them fragile.

Look into building a Moxon vise to hold the work higher for sawing.

Pictorials of mine on dovetailing:

Through dovetails: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ ... ails3.html



Half-blind dovetails: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ ... eTape.html



Regards from Perth

Derek

Sominus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:16 am

Cherryville Chuck wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:03 am I’ve tried them once and didn’t do that well but I find a pull saw easier to control and LV sells one of their own at a fair price. It has very fine teeth and a good stiff spine and cuts well. Like you I need a lot more practise.

I had the pleasure of trying out one of these bad boys at the L-N showroom a few years back.... VERY nice dovetail saws, but kinda spendy.

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/nodes/4145/dovetail-saws

Take a look at this one then Rob Cosman's Saw Hand made in his shop, a nice feature is the section of finer teeth at the tip to make starting the cut easier. While I haven't tried one, the Lee Valley line of backsaws get uniformly good reviews Lee Valley Saws, and at a much more reasonable price. Although I'm currently trying to learn hand dovetailing using Japanese pull saws, one of their crosscut carcass saws may find it's way onto my Christmas wish list Veritas Carcass Saw

Currently working on a pullout tool panel on the end of my workbench, I had to relieve the back side of the plywood strips that I attached to the steel angle legs for mounting the drawer slides in order to clear the heads of the carriage bolts - I toyed with different methods of doing the - table saw, router table, hand-held router - and wound up cutting the parts using a Ryoba with the strips clamped in my vise. All four notches pretty much in the time it would have taken me to set up the router table.

tomp wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:14 amRob Cosman's Saw

Nice saw but too expensive for the current situation. If I was into it enough that I was cutting dovetails on a regular basis, then yeah.
But just learning---- not today.

I've watched the video--once. Will be going back to watch it again & again.

Took the idea of the fret saw & ordered one. I tried chopping 'em out but that was a PITA.

To be continued.

I have both the pull and the push. I am a push guy, like it better, the LN works best for me. Derek is right on, I have kinked the blade of the LV Dozutki saw. But like their push saws. Also use their flush saws for lots of sawing besides flush cutting.
Vertitas DT saws are $79.00 right now.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/to ... etail-saws
Herb

smitty10101 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:55 pm

tomp wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:14 amRob Cosman's Saw

Nice saw but too expensive for the current situation. If I was into it enough that I was cutting dovetails on a regular basis, then yeah.
But just learning---- not today.

I've watched the video--once. Will be going back to watch it again & again.

Took the idea of the fret saw & ordered one. I tried chopping 'em out but that was a PITA.

To be continued.

Don't think that I cold ever justify purchasing one of Rob Cosman's saw (especially not to my wife, although the LV one is a possibility), but it does seems to do a fine job when he demonstrates it. And there are several other makers that sell similar saws in the same price range. On the subject of using a fret saw to remove the bulk of the waste, still leaving some small amount of waste that has to be removed to the scribe line by a chisel, I just watched a FWW video made by Bob Van Dyke showing his method of cleaning out the bottom of the pins using a top-piloted mortising bit in a trim router- I found this link Trimming Dovetails with router - the intriguing thing about the method was that you got a true, flat bottom surface, with no possibility of cutting into the sides of the pin because of the bearing on the router bit.

Yikes $259. Rob sure is proud of his saws, and LN is 2 for $130. or $79. each. That makes the lee valley look more reasonable.
I paid around $59. for my LV several years ago, and my gent saw was around the same.
HErb

smitty10101
Considering your price point and that you have used pull saws before you might what to take a good look at the Japanese Saw Gyokucho No. 372 Dovetail and Tenon Saw. I have both the 372 and the LN. With lots of practice Either one should work.
$50.00 on Amazon. Might find it cheaper with some searching.