I bought about 70 old brace bits a few years back, some of which were very rusty. Most needed a little polishing. I decided to try using electrolysis to clean them up. There are quite a few blogs and videos on how to do it. You mix about a level teaspoon of washing soda (Arm and Hammer Washing Soda for example) per litre of water or about a heaping tablespoon per gallon and hook up a battery charger on the 2 amp setting. The fine details are on the net. They say don't use copper, galvanized, or anything chrome plated so I used rebar wire to hook my bits together. There is a difference between some of them and I don't know if it's just because some were rustier than others or if maybe I didn't have as a good contact between the rebar wire and those shanks or if they were more towards the far end from the electrical connection. More experimenting will maybe help figure that out. I forgot to turn the charger onto manual and I also heard it sometimes helps to add a battery in between. I did both and as soon as I did I started getting a strong reaction.
You still need to wire brush the bits to get down to bare metal but some of the bits literally looked brand new after I did. The hardest part to clean is the first inch below the cutting edges. The nyalox drill wheel in the picture works well to get in that narrow space.
Re: De-rusting brace type drill bits
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:03 am
by DaninVan
Whatcha gonna do with them?
You didn't mention what you used for your sacrificial electrode (anode). Chrome as you mentioned is absolutely a no-no. It gives off toxic fumes. Copper is fine as long as you don't let it come into contact with the solution.
Re: De-rusting brace type drill bits
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:41 pm
by Cherryville Chuck
I should have taken a picture of it. It was surprising just how much rust had migrated over to it. Almost like a rough plating. I've already ground it smooth again in preparation for the next batch I'll start today. It is just a large chunk of steel that someone before me was trying to fabricate into something that I think might not have worked out. I'll post a picture after the next batch. Just about everybody suggests using rebar but most of them probably don't have a bunch of scrap metal around like I do.
One or two of the blogs or videos I've read said it works better to surround what you want the rust taken off of with sacrificial pieces. The bits that turned out really well seemed to be the same all the way around so I don't know if that matters that much or not. But it might take less time so I might try that with this coming batch.
As for the why, I'm going to try using them at times instead of corded or cordless drills. I have one brace I bought from LV years ago and I got another nice one in an auction lot last summer. I'll probably sell one and I figure it'll be a lot easier to sell if I have a set of bits to go with it. I have been using them occasionally over the years, especially the expansion bits. I find it better to use the brace rather than a power drill to drill with them because it they catch something and you're using it in a half inch drill you can break your wrist. Plus with the ratcheting feature they are easier to use in tight spots like in between studs up against a wall. Plus if I need a deep hole in something like a fence or sign post it's easier to do them with the brace. I think they still have a place in woodworking and I must not be alone because the bits sell for pretty good money on ebay. When sharp it doesn't take much if any longer to drill a hole with them.
Re: De-rusting brace type drill bits
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:10 pm
by Stick486
that's some seriously outstanding work you accomplished Chuck...
can I add to your video???
.
Rust Removal using Electrolysis SAFETY FIRST.pdf
Rust Removal using Electrolysis W_FAQ.pdf
Rust Removal using Electrolysis TIPS.pdf
Rust Removal using Electrolysis 4.pdf
Re: De-rusting brace type drill bits
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:13 pm
by Herb Stoops
Also electric drills have 3 jaw chucks that are made for no tang bits. I have some augers that have been cut cut off at the tang to use in drill motors. Years ago before larger bits were available for drill motors augers were cut for the purpose. Mainly the first drill motors lacked the power to drill well with the larger bits.
My Gramps was a millwright and he had a whole chest of ship augers. They were at least 24" long and had no worm to start them. You had to cut a notch with a chisel or hatchet to get them started, and there wasn't any brace,a "T" handle with a square hole was used to turn them. Some of them were large, 2"-3" in diameter. He would sharpen them with a flat file before every use.
Herb
Re: De-rusting brace type drill bits
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:13 pm
by Cherryville Chuck
Stick486 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:10 pm
that's some seriously outstanding work you accomplished Chuck...
can I add to your video???
.
Rust Removal using Electrolysis SAFETY FIRST.pdf
Rust Removal using Electrolysis W_FAQ.pdf
Rust Removal using Electrolysis TIPS.pdf
Rust Removal using Electrolysis 4.pdf
Absolutely those are worth posting. As for the flammable gases given off, in a very small space they could be dangerous. In a large space not so much. People think liquids are flammable but it's really only the vapors they give off that are. Supposedly hydrogen is given off during this process and it is highly flammable but only within it's explosive limits which means that it requires a certain minimum percentage of oxygen to ignite. Most gasses also have an upper limit. If memory serves me well, propane is between 2 and 9%. Above 9% it will burn but not explode. I'm not worried about the amount of gas this is giving off since I'm in a pretty good sized space.
Just using the battery charger you can turn it off when you make or break connections. With the battery in the middle it starts to bubble instantly when I start connecting wires but the most it can be is 12 and a bit volts and I don't turn the charger on until after I make connections. Why take a chance right?
Re: De-rusting brace type drill bits
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:27 pm
by Cherryville Chuck
Herb Stoops wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:13 pm
Mainly the first drill motors lacked the power to drill well with the larger bits.
[quote/]
Remember 1/4" drills? I haven't seen one for sale in decades but at one time they were common.
My Gramps was a millwright and he had a whole chest of ship augers. They were at least 24" long and had no worm to start them. You had to cut a notch with a chisel or hatchet to get them started, and there wasn't any brace,a "T" handle with a square hole was used to turn them. Some of them were large, 2"-3" in diameter. He would sharpen them with a flat file before every use.
Herb
Those are still available I'm pretty sure. Log house builders use them to drill holes through multiple courses of logs to pin them together. I've got some ship style augers for use with power drill and some of the ones I have originally had tangs and someone cut them off so they could be used in a power drill. I also have one 1/4" bit that has a tang that's so small it spins in the sockets of my braces. There must have been a smaller version available at one time.
Right now the only company I see making brace bits is Irwin and most sizes are listed as unavailable. There is supposed to be a German company making the Russell Jennings pattern bit but they want $57 a bit, a little rich for what I want to do.
Re: De-rusting brace type drill bits
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:34 pm
by Stick486
Cherryville Chuck wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:13 pm
Why take a chance right?
ABSOLUTELY!!!!!
sparks aka arcing here is your worse enemy...
Re: De-rusting brace type drill bits
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:27 pm
by Herb Stoops
found these pictures of the "T" handles, even had a ratchet one.
Herb
Re: De-rusting brace type drill bits
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:51 pm
by Stick486
Herb Stoops wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:27 pm
found these pictures of the "T" handles, even had a ratchet one.
I remember those...
my arms and shoulders ache now....
Re: De-rusting brace type drill bits
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:00 pm
by DaninVan
You need two of them, Charles; then you have a 'brace' ...
Re: De-rusting brace type drill bits
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:25 pm
by Cherryville Chuck
Herb Stoops wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:27 pm
found these pictures of the "T" handles, even had a ratchet one.
Herb
Nice. Those are definitely what you need for "bigger and longer".
Re: De-rusting brace type drill bits
Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:29 pm
by Cherryville Chuck
Getting batch number 2 going. The first pic shows how I strung them together with the rebar wire. This time I decided to hang them across the center of the bucket with sacrificial iron on either side. I found an old leaf spring for the second piece of iron. Pic 2 shows how I set it up and maybe shows some of the bubbles rising. Pic 3 shows how it's wired up. Charger goes to the battery and then the battery is wired to the sacrificial iron and a wire from the negative pole goes to either end of the wire holding the bits.
This does seem to be more efficient. I connected to the sacrificial pieces first and it started bubbling the moment I started connecting to the rebar wire holding the bits. It really is quite impressive to watch. There is a stream of bubbles coming off both sides of the bits and moving towards the sacrificial iron pieces at a rate of roughly 1" per second. I'll start up the process again in a few minutes and take them out this evening sometime.
Re: De-rusting brace type drill bits
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:42 am
by HandyDan
Re: De-rusting brace type drill bits
Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:45 pm
by Cherryville Chuck
I watched that one about two weeks or so ago.On a very small job like trying to get the rust off the frog assembly on a plane, evaporust might be the better way to go. Anything large and it's too expensive. The box of washing soda I got was enough to mix up a cattle watering tub full for just under $7. I did in fact read a blog the other day by a couple who like restoring old tractors and they were using a cattle trough to de-rust the hoods and fenders on old IH, Ford, and Chalmers era tractors.
Re: De-rusting brace type drill bits
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 3:42 pm
by DaninVan
And not counting getting organized, it's effortless ...almost.
Re: De-rusting brace type drill bits
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 5:36 pm
by Herb Stoops
We could have sure used that on the old Farmall and Ford tractor,seems to me it would take the galvanizing off the cow trough?
just saying.
Herb
Re: De-rusting brace type drill bits
Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:34 pm
by Cherryville Chuck
I think most of them are plastic these days. We had to have a pair of them at our anhydrous ammonia sites when I was doing that twice a year. One at either end of our 60 tonne tank. I went to the fields where they were growing grain up therewith the ammonia so I wasn't around the cattle that much but I suspect most probably used plastic tubs. They don't rust out and if the water freezes they can stretch without breaking. Our tubs were big enough for a large man to immerse himself if he curled up a bit so big enough for hoods and fenders on the old 8 and 9ns and the like.
Re: De-rusting brace type drill bits
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 9:28 pm
by Cherryville Chuck
Got the last batch finished a couple days ago. I left these in longer. By the last day the reaction seemed to have stopped, even though there was a fair amount of rust on one or two bits still. The rust that was left didn't seem to be as well bonded, it seemed a little softened up. It brushed off with a wire wheel fairly easily.
One pic shows how much rust transferred across. I cleaned the rust off the leaf spring and I was surprised to see that the part of the spring that the rust transferred to was now badly pitted.
