Workers Of Wood

Hey all, I had to update my stove and microwave,so I ended up buying a fridge too, only because it’s $100 more to buy white appliances?
Anyways , I don’t know what I should do here . If you see the one pic , the alarm panel is on the right hand side of the fridge , and I don’t want to relocate it , so the fridge is as far right as it can go .
Best case scenario would have been to have a cabinet on each side of the stove obviously,but I don’t have the real estate.
What happened was I had the fridge against the stove by an inch , only because the cabinet above it didn’t fall so short . But I can’t get the microwave door open as it must be grabbed from the right hand side .
So I moved the fridge over which created a 4- 1/2 “ gap between the stove and the fridge , and although that’s where I want it, the cabinet above the fridge now falls short by the same amount and doesn’t look very aesthetic.
So in the second pic, my idea was to either just replace the 30” cabinet with a 36” cabinet , or add a 4” spacer between the two cabinets , and add a 4” cabinet below that spacer which would slide towards you concealing spices . The pieces I want to add are in red , and the black square represents the 30” cabinet moved over .

Any suggestions are welcome

Just a heads up , I have to build a cabinet beside the left hand side of the stove so I have a counter top there . I only have 19 inches deep unfortunately, so I have to custom build it. There’s a doorway to the left , and going the same depth as the stove would start blocking the living room entrance .

Is the microwave also a vent fan? And if it is is it vented outside or a filtered recirculate type?

Fridge next to oven is a complete NO NO.
The fridge will not keep cold temperature with the oven heat against one side.
Re arrange.
Move the bin to the left of the oven. Move the fridge far right, build a tall larder cupboard between them.

Cherryville Chuck wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 11:37 am Is the microwave also a vent fan? And if it is is it vented outside or a filtered recirculate type?

Yes,I’m too lazy to cut a hole in my ceiling and roof, so I orientated the fan to circulation mode

sunnybob wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 11:44 am Fridge next to oven is a complete NO NO.
The fridge will not keep cold temperature with the oven heat against one side.
Re arrange.
Move the bin to the left of the oven. Move the fridge far right, build a tall larder cupboard between them.

Looking back , I should have gone with a 12 inch wide cabinet on the right instead of a 15” ,as that would have given me another 3” of real-estate to work with .
Then I could have installed a horizontal 12 inch cabinet on the right side of the microwave too . I’d have to relocate the alarm panel, but that’s a fairly easy one .
The bad news is, the electrical outlet in the upper cabinet would have to be relocated,as it’s to the far right , and if the cabinet gets moved over 3” ,it won’t be completely inside the cabinet anymore .
Plus the fridge outlet would have to be relocated.
I think I’ll just live with it . The last fridge and stove was configured like this, and the fridge was still functioning 20 years later . But I suspect this new one will calf sooner than the old one would have if I had kept it .

As for the spice cabinet , someone photoshoped it and it doesn’t work imo. It would be a bit lower ,but gives you the idea

One of my concerns is what Bob said. In correct kitchen design the stove, sink, and fridge should form a circle. I would suggest moving the stove left next to the wall and create a decent amount of counter top between. You need that space for taking things out of the fridge prior to either taking to to the sink or popping into the microwave or into a pan. You’ll need to remodel the top cupboard but the design/layout improvement will make it worth it. I’ll post a picture later of a feature I made you might want to incorporate.

Ive just realised you have the microwave a foot above the stove top?
Microwave electronics arent made to operate in that kind of heat and steam.
Youre throwing the kitchen rule book out the window here.

sunnybob wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 11:17 pm Ive just realised you have the microwave a foot above the stove top?
Microwave electronics arent made to operate in that kind of heat and steam.
Youre throwing the kitchen rule book out the window here.

Over here some microwave models also incorporate a vent fan and are meant to be installed over a cooktop.

Some kitchen design ideas Rick. They will orient properly when you click on them.

As I mentioned earlier, it would be better to get more separation between the stove and fridge. That would give you more usable cupboard and counter space. One thing you need by the stove is a drawer for cooking utensils. I have mine divided between two drawers that pull out from the corners of my cupboards. They need to be close and handy.

If you don't already have enough storage for pots and pans and cooking sheets then a pull out like I made for under my built in oven is one possibility for the cupboard space. It and all my shelves pull out so that no one needs to get down on their hands and knees to retrieve something in the back on the bottom.

I made spice racks on either side of the cooktop out of cedar timbers. I cut the coves the jars sit in with a Forstner bit on an angle.

I didn't notice which way your fridge door opens but it should hinge on the far side from the stove and counter which makes transferring in or out easier.

You were going to have to modify your top cupboard either way and doing what I suggest will be a little more work but you'll get a lot more value out of it in the long run.

Cherryville Chuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 11:56 am

sunnybob wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 11:17 pm Ive just realised you have the microwave a foot above the stove top?
Microwave electronics arent made to operate in that kind of heat and steam.
Youre throwing the kitchen rule book out the window here.

Over here some microwave models also incorporate a vent fan and are meant to be installed over a cooktop.

Never seen one designed to be that close to steam and heat.

@Cherryville Chuck , I am also uneasy at what Bob raised. It is not about venting the internal heat/moisture of the microwave oven. Rather, what protects the oven from the rising heat and steam (and soup eruptions) from the stove surface below? Do your codes make provision for some kind of insulation in the rack on which the microwave rests?

Biagio wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 2:13 pm @Cherryville Chuck , I am also uneasy at what Bob raised. It is not about venting the internal heat/moisture of the microwave oven. Rather, what protects the oven from the rising heat and steam (and soup eruptions) from the stove surface below? Do your codes make provision for some kind of insulation in the rack on which the microwave rests?

I would assume that the fan/filter/recirculate feature would capture most of it and the body (bottom part at least) of the microwave portion of the cabinet is sealed to prevent damage. There's one in the inlaw's old house across my yard that's been there for many years now. However, that one is vented through the ceiling. So they must come both ways and maybe are convertible. Some at least. Code is a minimum 24" above the stove top.

Hopefully this link to a Home Depot page works for you despite your locations. https://www.homedepot.com/b/Appliances- ... 5yc1vZc3pa If not I'll try to find one that does.

Thanks Charles. Link does not work in my geography - Access denied.

sunnybob wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 11:17 pm Ive just realised you have the microwave a foot above the stove top?
Microwave electronics arent made to operate in that kind of heat and steam.
Youre throwing the kitchen rule book out the window here.

The microwave is 21.75” above the stovetop. Recommended minimum is 18” , and I opted to go a little higher . Any higher and it would be difficult to reach inside

Biagio wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:36 pm Thanks Charles. Link does not work in my geography - Access denied.

I know some won't but I have no way to test and see which ones will. Try this one. https://thecookwaregeek.com/the-6-best- ... 9-reviews/

Thanks, Charles, I have learnt something. Built-in microwave ovens are fairly common here (but expensive). But the over-the-range concept is unknown. May be a regulatory issue - our codes pretty much follow British Standards and EU. I must say that, having found napoletana sauce on our ceiling recently (an old Celtic tradition in my wife’s lineage), I would be wary of an over-the-range oven, venting or no venting.

Mine is 16" off the cooktop to the bottom of the microwave,which is also the filters for the roof vent. It also has an intake louver over the top front of the microwave and in the cupboard above the microwave it has the stack going through the roof.
Herb

Biagio wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 10:57 am Thanks, Charles, I have learnt something. Built-in microwave ovens are fairly common here (but expensive). But the over-the-range concept is unknown. May be a regulatory issue - our codes pretty much follow British Standards and EU. I must say that, having found napoletana sauce on our ceiling recently (an old Celtic tradition in my wife’s lineage), I would be wary of an over-the-range oven, venting or no venting.

I went with an over the range microwave, only because I was trying to free up some real estate on my very limited counter space . I’m not a fan of it,but is it even nice getting that counter top model off my counter.

Charles , that’s an awesome setup you’ve built there, wow! I purchased a rack that mounts yo the bottom of the lower cabinet but need to cut out the second shelf, as it’s not even tall enough for cereal at the moment .
Really though, I should build my own sliding drawers , as I could get the sizing closer

sunnybob wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 11:44 am Fridge next to oven is a complete NO NO.
The fridge will not keep cold temperature with the oven heat against one side.
Re arrange.
Move the bin to the left of the oven. Move the fridge far right, build a tall larder cupboard between them.

Just used the convection oven for the first time . Definitely noticed the left hand side of the fridge was warmer than the right side . Not sure if enough to be concerned with though . I think a 3/4” piece of particle board against the fridge would be hard to make it look good , but I’m thinking of solutions

Charles , that’s an awesome setup you’ve built there, wow! I purchased a rack that mounts yo the bottom of the lower cabinet but need to cut out the second shelf, as it’s not even tall enough for cereal at the moment .
Really though, I should build my own sliding drawers , as I could get the sizing closer

Thanks Rick. I varied spacing of things to accommodate as many different sized objects as I could. You want the narrow spacing at the top which makes seeing and accessing stuff on the bottom easier.
The under the oven drawer for baking sheets and roasters was one of the hardest things I ever designed. I had all those items on the kitchen table with a measuring tape and sketch pad and kept playing with arrangements until it all fit. Up til then it was all stacked in a pile in the cavity and every time I pulled out the sheet or roaster I wanted everything would slide out crashing across the floor so I was motivated to create something that would eliminate that.

RainMan wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 2:10 pm

sunnybob wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 11:44 am Fridge next to oven is a complete NO NO.
The fridge will not keep cold temperature with the oven heat against one side.
Re arrange.
Move the bin to the left of the oven. Move the fridge far right, build a tall larder cupboard between them.

Just used the convection oven for the first time . Definitely noticed the left hand side of the fridge was warmer than the right side . Not sure if enough to be concerned with though . I think a 3/4” piece of particle board against the fridge would be hard to make it look good , but I’m thinking of solutions

Rick, you should think of a floor to ceiling divider between the stove and the fridge. If you think the oven produces sideways heat, try two saucepans on the side nearest the fridge. people dont realise that with a pan over the heat, a very large percentage of that heat goes sideways and around. Most of Europe, and the especially the U.K. where I worked, insist on 6" air gap minimum between a cooker top and any combustible surface. failing that a fire resistant board is required. It would be worth checking your local codes carefully, because you always have to consider the worst case scenario, which in this case would be a kitchen fire that your insurance company would not pay out on because of the siting of the appliances.

According to this link, 1/8"-1" clearance is recommended.

https://products.geappliances.com/appli ... ntId=16622

HErb

Herb Stoops wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 12:13 am According to this link, 1/8"-1" clearance is recommended.

https://products.geappliances.com/appli ... ntId=16622

HErb

Herb, thats a general air gap to allow the fridge to operate properly. We are talking about a stove top heat source. At the bottom of that page it states its permissible to be next to a wall mounted oven (because of course theres the chipboard of the support cabinet, as well as the 1" air gap). The point I'm trying to make is the sideways heat from saucepans on the top.
A local kitchen supplier can give details far better than me, because I'm literally on the other side of the world to you (lol), but I spent most of my working life installing industrial and commercial kitchens, and I saw the consequences of ignoring or not ascertaining local codes.
We all know Rick isnt good at insulating stuff (VBG).

National Kitchen & Bath Association, recommendations.
https://www.crddesignbuild.com/blog/kit ... guidelines

This is to allow for hot pans to be set after removing from cook top.
Herb

The diagram on this page shows something similar Herb. Rona is one of our major hardware chains. I didn't notice if it was in concert with fire regulations or not. https://www.rona.ca/en/workshop/tips/ki ... asurements

RE.Charles:
The Golden Rule,it says"never put two appliances next to each other".
Herb

Herb Stoops wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 6:26 pm RE.Charles:
The Golden Rule,it says"never put two appliances next to each other".
Herb

The one I’ve heard is that sink, stove, and fridge should form a circle with stove in the middle. That works well in a galley style kitchen like mine or if the cooktop is installed in an island.

That is the way mine is set up too. From left - Right, Refer,floor to ceiling cab, Stove w/microwave above,then sink then dishwasher under countertop and bar with cabinets under, in a circle.
HErb

Herb Stoops wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 1:57 am That is the way mine is set up too. From left - Right, Refer,floor to ceiling cab, Stove w/microwave above,then sink then dishwasher under countertop and bar with cabinets under, in a circle.
HErb

This is my kitchen I built in 2008, the counter top stove has been changed to a 6 burner, and off to the far left I installed an oven into that tall cabinet, electric.
The stove is mounted in one end of the center island., which is 4X6, with cabinets under it.
Everything is handy to the area in front of the sink.
Just recently replaced the old fridge with a new whirlpool.
Since the stove is 57 inches from the ceiling, there is no vent hood. The door has been replaced with a storm door that the top slides down to expose a screen.
The lower picture is a shot of my helper hanging sheet rock.

Bushwhacker

Bushwhacker wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:16 am counters..112 004.jpg

Herb Stoops wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 1:57 am That is the way mine is set up too. From left - Right, Refer,floor to ceiling cab, Stove w/microwave above,then sink then dishwasher under countertop and bar with cabinets under, in a circle.
HErb

This is my kitchen I built in 2008, the counter top stove has been changed to a 6 burner, and off to the far left I installed an oven into that tall cabinet, electric.
The stove is mounted in one end of the center island., which is 4X6, with cabinets under it.
Everything is handy to the area in front of the sink.
Just recently replaced the old fridge with a new whirlpool.
Since the stove is 57 inches from the ceiling, there is no vent hood.counters 032.jpg
The door has been replaced with a storm door that the top slides down to expose a screen.
The lower picture is a shot of my helper hanging sheet rock.

Bushwhacker

Great layout,and beautifully done,except for one thing. In my opinion,you should have a hood over the cook top. It will keep the food odors and cooking moisture from permeating the walls and ceiling throughout the house. Even hot grease vapor, will condense on the room surfaces.
Dang, that gal does everything,you lucky guy.
Herb

Just thought of something,does the cook top have a downdraft "hood" built into it?
Herb

Thanks Herb.
We talked about installing a vent when we built the kitchen, but she didn't want one so no vent.
Just like the dish washer, she didn't want one so, no dish washer.
Turns out, that is me.
Sandra cooks most everything and I do the dishes and clean the kitchen.
We really have very little grease from cooking, we eat nothing fried, and Sandra does a lot of cooking on the back porch in cookers and crock pots. When I built the back porch, I screened it in so she has a place to go with no mosquitoes.
Sandra is very careful of what I eat, seems she wants to keep me around for a while.
I'm all for that.

Bushwhacker


Note:
When we built the kitchen I installed a down draft ( a Jenn Aire) that vented it outside from under the house. It had a grill with it that we never used so the new one has no down draft.

Well I think I’m going to relent and install a 12” wide cabinet in the centre. I moved the fridge over 15” to see how it will feel , and it’s sucks but not the end of the world .
I did want to install a 15” centre cabinet to keep all the cabinet doors the same width for aesthetics , but I may have to live with a 12 in the middle , as I’m not sure .
I did notice the side of the fridge was warmer when I used the oven finally , so that could be concerning long term , and a divider would not look very athletic imo .
Here’s a few pics of the fridge’s potential new location , although it’s over 15” instead of 12” where it will probably end up .
I just have to relocate the alarm panel on another wall.

I should mention eventually I’ll also add a floor cabinet with a counter top to the left of the range . It’s gotta be custom, as it’s only 19.5” deep to the wall on its left . A 24” deep cabinet would be sticking out

Biagio wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 2:13 pm @Cherryville Chuck , I am also uneasy at what Bob raised. It is not about venting the internal heat/moisture of the microwave oven. Rather, what protects the oven from the rising heat and steam (and soup eruptions) from the stove surface below? Do your codes make provision for some kind of insulation in the rack on which the microwave rests?

Guys I have to say I just made some spaghetti, and ya the front of the microwave was soaked lol . I never thought about steam when I bought it , but it is what it is I guess . That’s what they’re designed for ?

That is going to be cool, you will have place to set hot pans and maybe a place to chop and slice while you cook. That is what I use that space for, along with some canisters on the back against the splash.
Herb

Herb Stoops wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 2:19 pm That is going to be cool, you will have place to set hot pans and maybe a place to chop and slice while you cook. That is what I use that space for, along with some canisters on the back against the splash.
Herb

Thanks Herb , and everyone else for your input , great stuff .
Ya I like the idea of extra room on the side , and I opted to go with a 15” cabinet instead of the 12” to give me more room yet . It’s getting kind of claustrophobic by the basement door, but whatever .
Also I went with three sliding drawers on the lower cabinet . It will be great to have extra drawer space to put utensils etc. I had no idea how counter tops work and will order two tomorrow. They come in 24” depths , so I’ll cut the one for the left hand side in the future ,as it has to be a custom depth once I build the cabinet.

I’m learning as I go unfortunately, and wasn’t even aware there was two different depths of fridges . I’d go with a counter depth if I did it all over again , and do 12” drop down cabinets on each side of the stove . But I’m certainly not starting from scratch again

RainMan wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 1:46 pm

Biagio wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 2:13 pm @Cherryville Chuck , I am also uneasy at what Bob raised. It is not about venting the internal heat/moisture of the microwave oven. Rather, what protects the oven from the rising heat and steam (and soup eruptions) from the stove surface below? Do your codes make provision for some kind of insulation in the rack on which the microwave rests?

Guys I have to say I just made some spaghetti, and ya the front of the microwave was soaked lol . I never thought about steam when I bought it , but it is what it is I guess . That’s what they’re designed for ?

My in laws put one in years ago and it's working just fine. MIL used to do lots of canning too.