Workers Of Wood

Posted: **Tue May 16, 2023 10:20 pm**

A couple days ago a cousin came close to sawing his thumb off between the first and second knuckles. He’s had it operated on and says he’s regaining feeling in it which is a good sign. It was close to a full amputation.

According to him he was sawing some thin stock, pushing with a push stick when the piece began to flutter a bit and he said the rest happened so quickly he couldn’t follow it. He didn’t say so but I suspect he had the blade quite a bit higher than it needed to be.

I think that was one of the two things that contributed to the accident. The other was lack of hold down. Thin material is particularly bad about fluttering and it can catch the back of the blade and be thrown when it happens.

I whipped up a few of the hold downs I use out of plywood off cuts and took him a couple. I’ll give another cousin a couple too. This is the only type I use anymore because it holds down while it pushes. Kelly Craig said in another thread it’s the only type he uses too. I strongly suggest that others make and use some too. And adjust the blade for different thicknesses so that there is only just a bit more than enough to make the cut.

Posted: **Wed May 17, 2023 5:40 am**

I added rough sandpaper (60-80 grit) to the bottom of my homemade ones.
Used 1/2 inch ply

Haven't had the guts to make really thin ones out of mdf like some pictured.

painted the leading point red to help remind my gray matter where the stick was located & where it was headed.

also, the trailing shoe was attached with BRASS screws for easy replacement

Posted: **Wed May 17, 2023 11:17 am**

Smitty; not sure any kind of metal is a great idea...shrapnel!
Personally, for the really thin rips, I have a tall sacrificial fence with a vertically adjustable holddown to prevent exactly what you described (the fluttering).

Posted: **Wed May 17, 2023 1:37 pm**

smitty10101 wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 5:40 am I added rough sandpaper (60-80 grit) to the bottom of my homemade ones.
Used 1/2 inch ply

Haven't had the guts to make really thin ones out of mdf like some pictured.

painted the leading point red to help remind my gray matter where the stick was located & where it was headed.

also, the trailing shoe was attached with BRASS screws for easy replacement

I wouldn’t trust 1/4 mdf either. Maybe 3/8 and thicker. All of mine are out of ply and the one I use most is made from some cabinet quality 1/4” and I’ve been using it for a couple years now. It’s held up quite well.

A fence mounted hold down is okay too. It just takes a minute to set up where my pusher does that well enough most of the time. If you’re doing a few cuts the fence mounted is probably a better idea. If you are experience flutter you should stop immediately and do something to prevent it. For one thing you won’t be getting a nice cut. Better hold down and lowering the blade should normally fix the problem.

Posted: **Thu Jun 15, 2023 12:20 pm**

In my opinion, those DIY push devices are great, except for one thing. The handle areas put your hands far too close to the blade. I was taught very early in my woodworking education that "if you find that what you are about to do puts any part of your body, especially hands and fingers, closer than 6" of the blade or cutting device to STOP and find some other way to do it".

I think a redesign of these pushers is in order. Move the hand holes higher, and don't use any metal at all in making these. The hand holes can be this close, if some protection is added that will hit the blade and warn you of an impending tragedy. The Grripper pushers use a plastic in the pusher design and guard that gives off a very pungent odor when cut. It's very obvious, almost instantly, that you are doing something wrong and you will stop the cut before your fingers.

Charley

Posted: **Thu Jun 15, 2023 11:20 pm**

CharleyL wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 12:20 pm In my opinion, those DIY push devices are great, except for one thing. The handle areas put your hands far too close to the blade. I was taught very early in my woodworking education that "if you find that what you are about to do puts any part of your body, especially hands and fingers, closer than 6" of the blade or cutting device to STOP and find some other way to do it".

I think a redesign of these pushers is in order. Move the hand holes higher, and don't use any metal at all in making these. The hand holes can be this close, if some protection is added that will hit the blade and warn you of an impending tragedy. The Grripper pushers use a plastic in the pusher design and guard that gives off a very pungent odor when cut. It's very obvious, almost instantly, that you are doing something wrong and you will stop the cut before your fingers.

Charley

The first thing I do when cutting a board Charlie is to adjust the blade height so that I only have maybe 1/2" showing above the cut. Although I have the holes down fairly low, in practice I usually have my index finger and thumb on top of the pusher for down pressure and better control so my little finger probably isn't that close to the bottom of the slot. And the slots are fairly long. I'm not six inches away from the blade but I'm probably a good three and as long as I'm feeling in control of the process I'm comfortable with that much. I've been using this style for several years and I don't recall ever feeling uncomfortable doing it. I'm not one to take chances, I have all ten digits and I plan on keeping it that way.

With all that said I plan on altering the angle on the back to one with more slope, possibly a 45 cut. The lower slope will result in more hold down. I'll have to see if I still have enough control on the push function at that angle.

Posted: **Fri Jun 16, 2023 12:03 am**

We were taught from the beginning to only let the blade protrude 1/4" above the work.
I have had the board bind and clamp onto the riving knife a couple of times, and removed it from the saw. I think that I have seen numerous times newbe's pushing from the LH side of the blade when ripping. That is strictly a no-no, asking for a kickback into the gut. Another one I have seen is the board rising up and riding the top of the teeth around in a circle for a nasty kick back.
I use a sled for crosscut a lot. They are even a pleasure to use.
Herb

Posted: **Fri Jun 16, 2023 10:23 am**

Herb Stoops wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 12:03 am We were taught from the beginning to only let the blade protrude 1/4" above the work.
I have had the board bind and clamp onto the riving knife a couple of times, and removed it from the saw. I think that I have seen numerous times newbe's pushing from the LH side of the blade when ripping. That is strictly a no-no, asking for a kickback into the gut. Another one I have seen is the board rising up and riding the top of the teeth around in a circle for a nasty kick back.
I use a sled for crosscut a lot. They are even a pleasure to use.
Herb

Isn't that the point of having the riving knife, the wood binds on it rather than the blade? I think the fact that it keeps the wood tracking in a straight line with the blade is even more helpful.

Posted: **Fri Jun 16, 2023 5:59 pm**

Riving knives are a more recent invention since I learned,table saw etiquette, we were taught to stop the saw when the board clamped the post that held the guard in place and tap a thin wedge into to kerf beyond the saw blade to relieve the clamping and start the saw ,and keep going. Then most of the time the guard was hanging on the wall and when the saw started to bind, the wedge was used then to relieve to bind.
Herb

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:32 am**

The problem with all the older splitters is that they were incorporated with anti-kickback pawls and blade covers. Great for ripping but if you weren't making a through cut you had to take them off and they weren't that quick and easy to remove or install. I made a crude splitter that works well with the thick inserts on my Uni by drilling a hole in a homemade mdf insert and threading a #40 screw into it. It's just about the right size for a thin kerf blade. I suppose a stamped steel thin insert could be done the same way. The screw doesn't need to stick up that much to work and if it's in the way just switch inserts.

I've had boards close up on me too. You can tell it's happening if you're paying attention. It'll start ripping with little feed pressure but it increases quickly and you'll hear the saw start to labor more and more. When that happens I hit the power switch and wait for the blade to stop which is usually almost instantly. Then I lift the piece off and if I decide to finish ripping it I flip it over and end for end. Usually a piece with that much tension in it is garbage anyway depending on what you are using it for.

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:11 pm**

I agree with setting the blade so it's just above the cut, but my mentor was my uncle, and he drummed the 6" rule into my head very strongly as well as keeping the blade set to a minimum height, so that's what has kept me "table saw safe" for almost 70 years.

It took me almost a year to accept and begin using a Grripper, because it's design also violates the 6" rule. Then I modified the rule in my head by adding "Unless a suitable guard is included and in place". The Grripper design puts significant plastic between your hand and the blade to protect you. I'm now convinced that Grrippers are safe and quite handy to use, but they take some self training. I won't do without them now. I have 3 Grrippers now, two for the table saw, and one with it's narrow side removed, for use with my router tables. They do have a safety feature in their design that they don't advertise and I found this out when the plastic of a misplaced Grripper hit the running saw blade. When cut, this plastic gives off a very pungent odor, and your nose will make you stop the cut almost instantly. Fortunately, spare parts are available for Grrippers from Micro Cut, but you will likely need to hit the blade several times before needing replacement parts. The odor reaches your nose and stops the cut very quickly.

My Delta Unisaw came to me used and without a blade guard or splitter. I found a source for a pop-up splitter and added it shortly after buying the Unisaw, and I use it whenever ripping solid wood, since that is the time that pinching can occur. It's much safer to do cross cuts or plywood cuts without it. I also sharpened the anti-kickback pawls on it until they reliably grab the wood if it starts to kick back. I would put a riving knife on the saw if I could, but haven't found one that looked like it could be attached and work safely. I now have a ceiling mounted Brett Guard over the blade area, that can be slid sideways when making blade adjustments, or even removed easily when necessary.

I have another table saw safety option that I use that I haven't found anyone else using. It's a ceiling mounted, remote controlled laser line generator, and it draws a red line across the top of the saw in line with the blade and any work in progress to show the cut line from well ahead of the saw, across the saw table, and well beyond the back of the saw table. It has a credit card sized single button wireless remote on/off control attached to the top of my saw fence with Velcro. If my hands or fingers ever get near a red line appears on them and it clearly shows that they are in the wrong place. It also helps me steer long rips well before they even reach the saw table. I like it when cutting blind DADOs and blind saw cuts too, since you can't see where the blade is cutting during these cuts. What if the blade setting rises, or the stock gradually thins and the blade breaks through the top surface of the stock ? I certainly don't want my hands or fingers anywhere that this might happen. Staying far away from this red line is easier and safer. This laser unit and it's remote were being advertised to help you cut straight, but it's far better used as a safety device, though it does help you steer long cuts. This laser came from Woodline, but they have long ago discontinued it from their catalog, probably because it didn't sell for it's advertised purpose. I think it should have been sold as a safety device.

Charley

Posted: **Sun Jun 18, 2023 1:53 pm**

We had a member for a short time on the old forum who had lost fingers while using a gripper. He said he was ripping with it when it flipped over and his hand went into the blade. I tried to get more info from him but he never responded. I suspect the cut closed up and he kept pushing.

I don’t like that I can’t see what’s happening but I imagine you get used to that. What you hear and feel can replace what you aren’t seeing. I could make a wooden version to try I guess.

Pictured was my simple solution to a splitter. I made a bunch of inserts from mdf using hot glue, the factory insert, and a flush trim bit. Once installed I raised the blade all the way and then laid a straight edge against each side of the blade and marked lines. I drilled a pilot hole between them and threaded a hole for a screw (#4 I think for a thin kerf) that matched the thickness of the blade. If it wound up slightly off to one side I was going to file that side. Mdf threads reasonably well so you can thread it for the set screws you need to install to level the insert. Also pictured is my jointer pusher.

Posted: **Sun Jun 18, 2023 5:21 pm**

I would think that solid wood would be stronger than thin MDF? I like your jointer pusher.
HErb

Posted: **Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:57 pm**

Herb Stoops wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 5:21 pm I would think that solid wood would be stronger than thin MDF? I like your jointer pusher.
HErb

The large cabinet saws usually have thick inserts. I think that's 1/2" I used and it's plenty strong enough. If that was a 1/8" thick stamped steel insert I would have drilled and threaded it.

I keep the jointer pusher sitting in the pocket of the fence adjuster. If I'm jointing a narrow piece I'll grab one of the TS ones but otherwise that's my go to. The 1/4" hook is all you need and I never joint that thin. The ones that come with a jointer should be tossed. The non-slip pads do slip and when they do the cutter head tosses the board you're working on and there's nothing between you and the knives anymore.

Posted: **Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:59 pm**

Cherryville Chuck wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:57 pm
Herb Stoops wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 5:21 pm I would think that solid wood would be stronger than thin MDF? I like your jointer pusher.
HErb
The large cabinet saws usually have thick inserts. I think that's 1/2" I used and it's plenty strong enough. Plus mdf is more stable than solid wood. If that was a 1/8" thick stamped steel insert I would have drilled and threaded it.

I keep the jointer pusher sitting in the pocket of the fence adjuster. If I'm jointing a narrow piece I'll grab one of the TS ones but otherwise that's my go to. The 1/4" hook is all you need and I never joint that thin. The ones that come with a jointer should be tossed. The non-slip pads do slip and when they do the cutter head tosses the board you're working on and there's nothing between you and the knives anymore.

Posted: **Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:46 pm**

I agree with you on the no-slip pads. I have never had on that didn't slip. They scare the daylights out of me, especially on the jointer. I do the hook trick too on the bottom. I have seen some with sandpaper instead of non slip rubber, and they also slipped. The gripper does work on the jointer too, and it has a lip on the bottom.
Herb

Posted: **Tue Jun 27, 2023 12:22 pm**

"We had a member for a short time on the old forum who had lost fingers while using a gripper. He said he was ripping with it when it flipped over and his hand went into the blade. I tried to get more info from him but he never responded. I suspect the cut closed up and he kept pushing."

I can't picture how this could happen, if he was hanging onto the Grripper correctly and tightly as he should, and the instant the Grripper touched the blade he should have smelled that plastic smell from the cutting of the Grripper.

Not everyone is physically or mentally capable of using machine tools safely. Some are much better off selling door to door, etc. Even with extensive training, they cannot control their body movements well or their mind on what their hands are doing.

Charley

Posted: **Tue Jun 27, 2023 2:12 pm**

CharleyL wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 12:22 pm Not everyone is physically or mentally capable of using machine tools safely

AMEN!!!!!

Posted: **Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:31 pm**

I've known a few people like that Charley. They lack awareness, hand-eye coordination, and even though they can recite the instructions for something to you they don't seem to be able to follow them. When my wife is helping me I have to constantly tell her to stop watching her hands. She seems to have no idea what they are doing unless she's looking at them. Very unhandy when she needs to be moving in coordination with me.

Posted: **Mon Jul 24, 2023 7:38 am**

Cherryville Chuck wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:31 pm I've known a few people like that Charley. They lack awareness, hand-eye coordination, and even though they can recite the instructions for something to you they don't seem to be able to follow them. When my wife is helping me I have to constantly tell her to stop watching her hands. She seems to have no idea what they are doing unless she's looking at them. Very unhandy when she needs to be moving in coordination with me.

Dang Chuck, what are we talking about here?

Bushwhacker

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2023 2:13 am**

Bushwhacker wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 7:38 amVery unhandy

Heh...nice wordplay!

Posted: **Tue Jul 25, 2023 6:35 pm**

Bushwhacker wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 7:38 am
Cherryville Chuck wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:31 pm I've known a few people like that Charley. They lack awareness, hand-eye coordination, and even though they can recite the instructions for something to you they don't seem to be able to follow them. When my wife is helping me I have to constantly tell her to stop watching her hands. She seems to have no idea what they are doing unless she's looking at them. Very unhandy when she needs to be moving in coordination with me.
Dang Chuck, what are we talking about here?

Bushwhacker

Another example David is a woman who was married to one of my wife's cousins. We were helping her grout some wall tile above a new countertop she had installed. She read the directions for the grout which stated you hold the float at an angle and press the grout into the cracks, then proceeded to hold the float flat against the tiles and just smear it around without filling any cracks and not realizing that it wasn't working which was the real problem. She could recite the directions but had a total disconnect between the theory and the physical reality of the job, plus no awareness that what she was doing wasn't working. I took over and even after watching me I don't know if she realized what she was doing wrong. She's a practical nurse who runs her own drug testing (as in piss testing) business so she isn't stupid in general, just at translating instructions into physical action.

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