Workers Of Wood

In shopping for a dust collector I have seen many recommendations for the Harbor Freight dust collector, tales of its fantastic price and discussion regarding recommended modifications...Rikon 11" fan blade, Super Dust Deputy, Wynn canister filter, etc... I dutifully watched some youtube videos showing the modifications...

And then I started to count the dollars required for the modifications. As it turned out, the HF unit plus modifications came to right about the price of the Jet within a few bucks. Couldn't pass up the Jet...

The Jet is "in the house" waiting on duct work and electric. It is installed in the middle of the back wall of my 2-car garage where one 6" duct will run up the back wall and then along the center beam about 12' and drop down to the table saw. The other duct, branched off the main at the ceiling will go along the back wall and then towards the doors of the garage with drops for the equipment along that wall. Material will be stovepipe. I honestly thought I would have the shop done by August...

Why the VX ? ...the vortex cone. Presumably no need for a separator ahead of the DC...we'll see. If it turns out it needs a separator, I will modify the install by placing the blower and filter on the wall and connecting the Super Dust Deputy underneath it (like the plastic bag it uses now). Here's a video about that install...all you'll need is the first minute to get the idea...but it's a good video with plenty of ideas...



Another reason is the well established name Jet has in dust collection and other tools. Authorized service centers throughout the US...Customer Service is based in US...Technical support for installation assistance...local company (Tennessee)...

...unfortunately, there it sits for now waiting on juice and straws...

What’s the HP and CFM on that unit?

Sominus wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:37 pm What’s the HP and CFM on that unit?

2hp, 1200CFM, 230V/1Ph...6" or 2x4" inlet. Probably less CFM by the time all the duct work is in...

Still, no slouch, that. I picked up a Grizzly G0440 for $600, otherwise I probably would have gone with a unit like yours.

Sominus wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:57 pm Still, no slouch, that. I picked up a Grizzly G0440 for $600, otherwise I probably would have gone with a unit like yours.

Bought it when it was on sale for $649, I think...

That 440 is some machine...! 1354CFM...! ...and for $600...did you have to make bail...?

Nickp wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:02 pm

Sominus wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:57 pm Still, no slouch, that. I picked up a Grizzly G0440 for $600, otherwise I probably would have gone with a unit like yours.

Bought it when it was on sale for $649, I think...

That 440 is some machine...! 1354CFM...! ...and for $600...did you have to make bail...?

No, but I did drive away VERY quickly!

**note -- this post is mostly for "other folks" who are contemplating dust collection systems. **

Nick: If you haven't done so already, I highly recommend using higher grade fittings (elbows, gates) from companies like airhand.com or rlcraigco.com ( E.g. https://warehousecatalog.rlcraigco.com/ ... ree-elbows ). Snap seam ducting for main runs is fine under 5hp or so, but the more turbulence and hard turns you add to the pipe runs, the more you cut down on airflow. This is also true of the flexible hose you often find people using: as short a run as is possible should be used since that stuff is nothing BUT turbulence and corners.

You can also make your own saddles — Stick gave me some templates on how to do it. I really need to make some PDFs on making the pieces.

With a robust dust collection system (the aforementioned Jet and Grizzly included) you may not notice the drop in air movement in a small shop with no though-out ducting/line plan, especially if you are only opening up the system for one tool at a time. This is partly due to design/hp but also due to using larger-diameter runs for ducting and only reducing the main line diameter as you approach and/or connect to the tool. Once you get down to 4” duct lines and start increasing the number of turns, the air-movement drop becomes far more noticeable. I am running 8” main lines in my shop, and will only have 1 90 degree turn and 2 45s and 30ish feet of main trunk, from which I will branch off with 6” lines ( via the aforementioned homemade saddles) to my tools/workstations.

Many people when setting up a duct collection system start with a budget dust collector (e.g. Harbor freight) and immediately choke it down to 4” PVC pipe due to availability of materials. Without going into the debate regarding PCV vs galvanized steel, using a smaller diameter due to local availability of materials is a HUGE rookie mistake -- there are many companies (the aforementioned RLCraigco.com and airhand.com are but examples) that will sell you ducting of many types in many diameters. Users should PLAN their system and get materials that work the plan -- its not significantly more expensive to do so, and the end result will be far better.

Excellent points, Mike...thank you...

I bough a collector off a colleague about 20 years ago and it is similar to the HF or most all the other Taiwan made ones, probably all from the same factory. It is definitely not a "dust" collector. It collects debris. The dust gets redistributed as a fine cloud back into my shop. Unless you can install it outside the shop I don't recommend them.

As regards Mike's comment about reducing pipe size I agree that you shouldn't. However, mine has a 6" inlet which came with a a Y connector fitting that split it into two 4" intakes. You shouldn't be using 6" pipe to connect to one of those, only if you took the adapter off. It doesn't matter where in the line the restriction is at, the results are the same. DCs work by floating the dust and debris in a column of air. If you have a restriction then it may not be getting enough air to float the debris on. In a case where you might only be using it with say a router table where the pickup is only 2.5" the DC will do a better job if a blast gate is opened past the router table connection so that enough air is filling the main tube.

Agreed...my intent is to run 6" all the way to the drops, then 4" to the machines until it drops to 2 1/2".

I do recall earlier posts you've made to open a blast gate to maximize air flow and the reasoning behind it. Definitely plan on doing that. I had to make an air break with the dust deputy because the particles wouldn't drop down.

If the Jet had an 8" inlet I would use 8" up to where it branches to TS and other machines then 6", then 4" drops...I'm pretty sure the 6" will suffice.

The Jet also came with a 2x4" to 6" adapter...not planning on using that at all...

The 4" equipment is band saw, table saw, planer, joiner...other is 2" and 2 1/2". Odd thing about the band saw is that while it has a 4" hole it's reduced drastically to about 1"x3" at the base where it enters the saw body...so this too will need some relief air per your recommendation.

My machine has a 7” inlet and outlet... I worked with someone on maths and stuff and determined that an 8” line in and out (still leaving the 7” collar in place) would gain another hundred or so CFM. Most of my machines are 4”, so they will get a 4” connection. Most of the saddles I build will be 8x6, so the reductions happen as close to the machines as possible.

Sominus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:38 pm My machine has a 7” inlet and outlet... I worked with someone on maths and stuff and determined that an 8” line in and out (still leaving the 7” collar in place) would gain another hundred or so CFM. Most of my machines are 4”, so they will get a 4” connection. Most of the saddles I build will be 8x6, so the reductions happen as close to the machines as possible.

So you will need to do the same thing...let some relief air in to accommodate the air flow required to flow the particles...

I can't help thinking this whole DC thing turns people into Tim Allens... ...myself included, of course...

Table saws need about 450CFM or so, planers and joiners not much different...what the heck are we doing with these monsters besides testing duct implosion characteristics... ... I'm tempted to buy a vacuum gage...

LET THE TESTING BEGIN...! ! !

This was a perennial discussion on TFTMNBN with proponents of the frankensteined (I just made that up) HF units and all the gyrations that people went through to try to get high-end performance out of what was a single-machine hobbyist DC. That and going with the choking down to use 4” pvc and dryer conduit.. I get it when people are on a low budget, and I gladly help them. But when you’re singing with radio thinking you’re an opera star, something’s gotta give..

Are you guys factoring in Horse power of your machine? I increase my motor to 3hp from 2 and that makes a world of difference, also the diam. of the impeller makes a huge difference too. I saw an installation with 3" mains reduced down to 1" for small tools and you couldn't feel any suction. Rockler sells a small wall hung unit, but it is more of a central vacuum system, it turns around 12,000rpm and the air velocity is such it can be used in small duct.
There are 2 different things to consider High velocity/low volume vacuum systems, or low velocity large volumes of air dust collectors.

Most places around here are running 10-20% off Jet tools for Black Friday (week+)

And, Stumpy weighs in on DC

I hate to do this to you guys cuz it's a really long read...most if not all of you know Bill Pentz...

This article from his page, only one aspect of DC BTW, explains so much about "basics" you wonder how much more there is...well, if you click on the various tabs at the top of his page you'll get the idea.

I will point out that he feels only Jet and Powermatic DC's actually tested to their advertised CFM ratings...some were advertised 100% over their actual...

Like I said...it's a long read but very interesting...I don't doubt some of you already know what he's got in the article...

https://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/dc_basics.php
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@Nickp , that’s likely a good bit of library material (maybe as a pdf?) to add to the DC sticky list... yes? No?

Thought about it...maybe a link rather than a copy...not sure if it's ok to copy and post...gonna check his web site...