Joints Glue up

[smitty10101]

Surprised that no one brought this up. Or did I sleep through the thread?

Part 1



This is part 2.



With indications that there will be a part 3 someday.

[Nickp]

Interesting...thanks

[Herb Stoops]

Thanks Smitty, those are good videos.
Herb

[Cherryville Chuck]

I saw one a week or two ago by someone else who did the same tests with the same results. The advice to not trust end to end joints probably happened because of poor gluing technique. In any porous material (such as end grain or particle board) you have to be careful to avoid glue starvation. This is where the glue gets sucked into the porous grain or material and the joint winds up getting starved for glue at the contact point. For years now, anytime I had to glue anything really porous I've put glue on both surfaces and waited a few minutes to see if it was going to get sucked in. If it did I would add another layer on and wait a couple of minutes again. In any gluing application with water based glues it doesn't hurt to give the glue a chance to soak in before you join pieces with the exception in a joint where the glue can swell the wood to where it makes assembling the joint difficult (mortise and tenon).

[Stick486]

Surprised that no one brought this up. Or did I sleep through the thread?

this follow up may be of value to some...
.

Adhesives 101 for Woodworkers with Matt Wallace...

[DaninVan]

Sort of on topic;
The more I use Weldbond the more I'm impressed. Finger pressure only for less than a minute and it's essentially bonded. Very difficult to move it after that without actually getting violent.
Clamping? Minimal required and only for an hour or so...seriously, I'm not exaggerating. If you need more open time, probably not your first choice, but all things considered way more practical than TBII or III.
In Doubt? Buy a small container and take it for a test drive..

[Stick486]

all things considered way more practical than TBII or III.

waterproof too...
how much open time are you getting???...

Very difficult to move it after that without actually getting violent.

slide or turn your pieces, don't pull...

[DaninVan]

Under a minute if I don't move it during that time. Maybe 40 seconds before it grabs...I'll try and remember to time it the next time I do a glue up.

[Stick486]

Under a minute if I don't move it during that time. Maybe 40 seconds before it grabs.

you left the bottle open and the dry/cure cycle has started in the bottle...
you have an extra warm shop...
you have a low RH...

[Cherryville Chuck]

An uncle told me years ago that you can glue laminate down with it too. I think he said to put some on both surfaces and wait til it got tacky. Melamine glue will glue laminate too but the rep from Franklin said that it can't be over too big an area because the water carrier has to be able to migrate to the edges. Probably the same issue with using Weldbond.

The last counter top I built I used melamine glue to glue the edge pieces on with. Time may prove me a liar but I think the melamine glue works better than contact cement for that part of the job. The downside is you need to clamp it and let it dry before you trim.

[DaninVan]

Under a minute if I don't move it during that time. Maybe 40 seconds before it grabs.

you left the bottle open and the dry/cure cycle has started in the bottle...
you have an extra warm shop...
you have a low RH...

!)...nope, it's an OEM squeeze bottle
2)... maybe 17C
3)... yesterday the outdoor RH was 90%. This morning it's 92% and 5.5C Dewpoint; currently the outdoor temp is 6.6C

In any case, I'm not complaining; just takes a bit of getting used to. I have to say I quite like the minimal clamping aspect.

[Stick486]

)...nope, it's an OEM squeeze bottle

you left the slide open during your assembly process...
that's enough venting to say you left the bottle open...
think collectively...

[Stick486]

Sort of on topic;
The more I use Weldbond the more I'm impressed. Finger pressure only for less than a minute and it's essentially bonded. Very difficult to move it after that without actually getting violent.
Clamping? Minimal required and only for an hour or so...seriously, I'm not exaggerating. If you need more open time, probably not your first choice, but all things considered way more practical than TBII or III.
In Doubt? Buy a small container and take it for a test drive..

see.. I wouldn't steer you wrong...
I glued up a complex multiple compounded angled (cut angles - 10, 15, 22.5, 30, 45, 60, 90) keyboard, phone, 2x remote control stand/holder this morning for a disabled buddy... 2 days for the details, 1 day for the cuts and a half hour for the glue up..
zero clamping.. didn't even use tape or mechanical fasteners... the WeldBond was applied contact cement style.... sized both edges/joints and assembled right away... finalized position by sliding them into place...
where I used non-skid matting I sized the wood 1st w/ WB and applied the mats while the WB was still tacky......
mounted the holder to the hardware from of a swing away, adjustable angle, computer keyboard/mouse, multi-level pull out so it can be used from either a wheelchair or a hospital bed... the pull out was then mounted to a hospital bed table...
believe it or not, success 1st time out the gate...

NOTE:
Make ABSOLUTELY sure of where you want those self stick no skid mats... they ain't moving or coming off for love or money...
.
TIP..
want a self stick something or other to stay put???...
put 1 or 2 drops of WB on it before putting it where you want it....
questionable surface??? size the location 1st w/ WB...
I really really like WeldBond...

[Stick486]

The more I use Weldbond the more I'm impressed.

it'd be good to hear what others think of it...

[Cherryville Chuck]

If you make a puddle of Weldbond and let it dry on something slick when you pull it off and pull on it it's quite rubbery feeling. In my opinion, joints that undergo stress survive better when glued with a glue that has some flex in it. This is part of what makes PL400 a great adhesive too. It's like tire rubber when dry. Hard glues tend to fracture and shear under stress. Some epoxies are made to give as well and those are the ones that are used to laminate the layers of longbows together.

Another glue that can stretch is Melamine glue. It also doesn't get sucked into grain as easily as most other water based glues which I why I use it almost exclusively on plywood, mdf, and particle board edges. The edges of those are so porous that the joints tend to get starved for glue and it isn't as big an issue using melamine glue. I've started using it to glue countertop lam on the front edges of counter tops and it seems to work better than contact cement.

[Stick486]

)...nope, it's an OEM squeeze bottle

maybe it was old when you purchased it...

[DaninVan]

Nope, and I'm not complaining, just stating my experiences with it.

[Stick486]

it'd be good to hear what others think of it...

so it's been a while and perhaps some of the folks here have had the chance to try WeldBond Adhesive...
what do y'all think of it???

[DaninVan]

it'd be good to hear what others think of it...

so it's been a while and perhaps some of the folks here have had the chance to try WeldBond Adhesive...
what do y'all think of it???

I'm using it pretty much exclusively now. I've thinned it out a tich and like it better. No noticeable difference in bond strength; I do however make sure I've satisfied the woods 'thirst' ie not stingy with the glue!

[HandyDan]

I like the short tack time and the fact that it works on other materials. Definitely will be a permanent supply in my shop.

[Stick486]

I've thinned it out a tich and like it better.

FWIW - 5% works ideal for wood... 10% by volume MAX...

[Cherryville Chuck]

it'd be good to hear what others think of it...

so it's been a while and perhaps some of the folks here have had the chance to try WeldBond Adhesive...
what do y'all think of it???

I'm using it pretty much exclusively now. I've thinned it out a tich and like it better. No noticeable difference in bond strength; I do however make sure I've satisfied the woods 'thirst' ie not stingy with the glue!

It's not a bad idea to do that but I would put a thin coat on first and wait a couple minutes and then apply a second coat. I commonly do that anyway. You can also use Weldbond like a contact cement if you coat both sides and wait to join until the glue is just starting to develop a skin. Most wood glues will do that but Weldbond seems to do it a little better.